Author - Mike Symons

Joining the podcast this week is author Mike Symons. Mike is the author behing the Ken Rowe series of spy thrillers set during the Second World War, which combines his two passions of WW2 history and James Bond. 

We talk about his latest book A Travel Book Too Far, which follows in the footsteps of Operation Market Garden, with a sprinkle of Hollywood film facts about A Bridge Too Far.  Mike has written this wonderful guide by campervan to the battlefields of Holland, specifically taking in the sights of Operation Market Garden.

His book is available to buy from Aamzon, so make sure you get yours and follow his journey.

Transcript

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Uh good evening. Welcome to the We Happy Few Five O Six Podcast, just you're on your doorstep. And joining me today, or this evening, is Mike Simmons. Simmons? Simons? Simmons, yes, Bob. Simmons. Who wrote the book, the wonderful book, A Travel Book Too Far. How you doing, mate? I know we had a bit of a chat there for about 20 minutes. I thought let's get cracking because we're actually talking about some good stuff. You know, just the conversation is really flowing. Yeah, no worries. Yeah, thank you very much for having me on later. Yeah, it's an absolute pleasure to be on the podcast. So yeah, how's your day been? I mean, we've got some lovely heat. How is it where you are in the world? It got hot, very, very hot down here in very sunny Sussex. But yeah, no, it's been a good day. Um, I've just spent the day pacing around nervously waiting to do this podcast really, trying not to uh annoy defang me too much, really. So so yeah. No pressure, no pressure. Yeah, no pressure. I know I'm nervous. Uh but now we're just chatting beforehand, and I was just looking at the timing, and we were like, my god, we've been chatting about 15 minutes, and it was just for me, it was quite fluid. Um and it just quite organic as well, really, because we were just bouncing around and just sort of, you know, bits, you know, I suppose influences of history, and and I I think that's probably a really great topic area um to to start on. Sorry, a bit of a joke there. It's in Mike's book, so I'm not gonna say any more uh about certain techniques, but um no, I suppose influences of history, and yeah, this is actually a really good opener to your book as well. And God, I got like I said, so many notes in here. Um I suppose I suppose, yeah. The first of all is you know, you're not a trap, you know, you're not a travel expert. No, you're not a history teacher, no or a film critic. It's in his book, by the way. This is not me slighting him. That's on his first page. So what are you, mate? Because that that for me, that's straight away a question of because it leads quite nicely into why you've done this book. And I think it's a wonderful book, by the way. Thank you. Um and you're very honest in that opening line or that opening page. So yeah, I'd say, who are you? Yeah, I mean, I just I didn't want to be, I didn't want to try and be something I'm not, so I thought, yeah, that can be my um strong opening line. Um, it's yeah, I'm not any of those things, but um massive history fan, massive film fan, massive travel fan. That's that's who I am, really. Um history came, uh I'm just talking about it in the book, but history comes from my grandfather, my my mum's dad, who we call Pops. Um, spent a lot of time with him growing up, loads and loads of time. And he was he served with the Royal Air Force during the Second World War in Bomber Command. Uh his grand crew worked on the Lancasters and uh served out of the RAF Tudden. Tuddenheim, I think it's how you pronounce it in Cambridgeshire. Um so um, and 90 squadron was his squadron. And in his little study in his house, so I'd say spend a lot of time with him, I got to his study, and he sat there and above his desk, it was just a remarkable painting of a Lancaster in the mist, in the morning mist, and Grand Crew working on it. And I've I've got it now up in proud, proud place in the house. And um, he just used to talk about that picture and the Lancaster with so much passion. And then across one wall was just hundreds of books, all World War II books, you know, um, all with that smell, that really old musty smell, it's like the best book smell ever. Um most people say cut grass or you know, whatever, but whiskey or wine. No, it's like musty books, great. Musty books, I agree. Um yeah, um, and that and again, all those books have have have made their way into my bookshelves, which is great. And then on the opposite wall with this painting of horses gliders and parachutes coming down on Operation Market Garments. You have these two contrasting paintings. And I used to just hit in that study from a very young age, and just chatter, and listen to all his stories, which all started with there was this one night we were drinking in this pub, we were drinking in this pub, and uh there was no heroic stories, it's all just about his mates playing poker with the Canadians and all this stuff. And it just sounded magical, really. And yeah, he he sort of told me about all these things, but then pushed me to be inquisitive and ask questions, and that's where this all came from, really. And then so I started to talk to my nan, and she was evacuated, and my granddad was during the blitz, he was studying for his kind of GTSE, um, whatever the equivalent was back then, and down in a tube station. Um, my gran on my dad's side was born in Burma and fleet fled Burma, excuse me, um, when the Japanese came. So, and suddenly this world just opened up, really. Um, and yeah, it was him that gave me that inspiration for history, and and so he took me everywhere, you name it, Duxford, um uh Imperial War Museum. If you if it was a museum to do with war or something had something in it, and we went to those air shows together. Um, so this is long before I've even seen Bander Brothers. But then Banda Brothers comes along in 2001 and that's it, you know, and then Medal of Honor Frontline on the PS2 comes out and stay in front right and and suddenly, you know, it just my my my interest goes into the stratosphere, and we went into the Normandy beaches, my grandfather and my nan and I, and and yeah, that's where it came from. And then he very selfishly passed away about 11 years ago, really selfishly. And we'd had a market garden trip planned for years, and life just got in the way, his health, you know, me being a teenager and exams and all that. So we never got around to doing it really. Um, but we always had this trip planned. So it's why when I came up with Campa History, I wanted to. That's the first place I knew I had to go. But when he passed away, I didn't particularly deal with it overly well because he was my mate, so it's like he was my mate. And so, but I love to write, and I love spy films, big, big James Bond fan, bigger than you know, I'm happy to talk about that as well. Big big James Bond fan. Um, and so I started writing these spy stories set in World War II, and I've written, I'm on the 14th book now, my 14th and final book, and I named the character, main character, after him because it was a way of discovering World War II stuff and taking him through the war and still being with him, if that makes sense. Um, but then writing love themes about your grandfather as a spy in World War II is is probably a bit weird, and I'll need counselling for that later on in life, I've been imagined. But uh but yeah, so you know, and and then I kind of realised God, I want to write books. Um I've self-published, every everything I've done is self-published because I haven't done a publisher kind enough to take me on yet. Um, but I quite like self-publishing because you you keep control. Um so yeah, the dream really is uh who am I? Hopefully, I'm a writer at some point. Or I am just no, that's wonderful. Um God, there's so much there, you know. And and I think you're right, it's it's movies, isn't it, that gets us into it, as well as obviously from your case, you know, family members as well. Where where was your nan evacuated here? Yeah, so so yeah, it's quite cool actually. So my nan's dad was the head primate keeper at London Zoo, and her uncle Alec was the head uh reptile keeper. And so he stayed in London with the animals. A lot of the animals were then evacuated to can't remember the name of the zoo, it'll come back to me in a minute. Kent Kentway, if I remember right, and she went out that way. Um, so yeah, so and so the family moved to be the and and continued to move with the animals. So it was it's a a mad story. Um, but yeah, so so yeah, so that's where she was evacuated. So she was lucky to have been evacuated with mum and dad, which is a quite a unique story for a child from that time. So but yeah, um, but she does remember the early parts of the blitz and and and sitting in an Anderson shelter and things like that. So hearing her stories as well from that different perspective, just insane, really. Um no, you're right. It's it's to have somebody to talk about that. I think it's phenomenal. Um and you know, sadly those stories are vanishing. I mean, my grandparents, they were too young um for that. And I think on my grandmother's sorry, my grandmother's side on my father. My father's mother, her father was I think he one of the Welsh regiments, but then he just got pulled back. You're a miner, you're going back down the mines, we need miners. Um so so you sort of got pulled. Yeah, that but so didn't really get spoken about, obviously, because that was quite a um a desired job, wasn't it? One of those where um we needed coal for ships for anything. So he got, yeah. Soon you know, we did sign up. I want to say as a medic, I'll have to ask my father which regiment. But I get yeah, just pulled. No, you're not doing that, mate. You're going back down there. Um get about those fresh air and traveling the world. You're going down that big hole in the ground, no fresh air, you're not going anywhere. Um so yeah, and that's really interesting. And gosh, you know, you talk about films as well, because I think that's a really cool way, you know, an in an intro to history as well. And the guys I had on a couple of weeks ago, Bob and Brian, Memphis Bell was their intro. Um, and for me that was probably my sort of that was sort of scratched my service because that was out when I was a kid. Um although it didn't get me in a deep dive like Banda Brothers did in reading, but certainly capture the imagination of war films in a weird way. I wanted to do something like that. Yeah. And I hate to say this, it's such a quite a I've never asked this question before. But if you were and again, it's you know, watching movies or TV series. So when I watched Memphis Bell, I wanted to be uh a waste scanner. Yeah. I was if I ever served in World War II. Did you ever have that sort of imagination as well? Did that sort of watching the movies? And what was it? Yeah, 100%. Uh Battle of Britain, original Battle of Britain 1969, I think, if I remember rightly. Uh yeah, Spitfire Pilot, you know, it's every day of the week, um, Spitfire Pilot. And then I'd bang on about it. I was really lucky because I was introduced to four Band of Brothers in the same prime. I'd I'd done The Great Escape, I'd done Battle of Britain, Battle of Britain, Dan Busters, Longest Day, British Star. And um when I was banging on about wanting to be a Spitfire pilot, because my granddad had worked in Lancasters. He said, No, you've got to watch the Dan Busters. If you're gonna be anything, you're gonna be a Lancaster pilot. So they were saying, um, so um, so I was lucky to uh watch the classics, as I would call them, you know, the Memphis bells and stuff before the the more modern stuff, which you know, which is it, you know, Bander Brothers is a stress for on its own, it has to be put up here on its own. Um there's some good movies though from back in those classics, like 633 Squadron. My god. That's a great and the thing about it is is in then they did it for real. They built the real set, the real bangs, the real tanks and stuff. And that's why I love those movies. No, you're right. And it's it's you know, with 633, I was looking at, you know, when I I can't help wonder, and it's the same with um Warlover with Steve McQueen as well, another one. That was filmed at Bovington and they venture into Cambridge, but it's like got this fake blue screen behind it, which is yeah, you know, it is Cambridge, but they're not there, it looks like. Yeah, um, and you know, yeah, you know, B-17s there. Um but yeah, 633. Oh god, what aircraft was that? What'd it say? Um, you say, yeah. Yeah, and and I was looking at, you know, the I was looking at where were they filmed? Because I went to Memphis Bell the other week, and I was just like, oh my god, this is amazing. And yeah, so for 633, part of it they filmed it, you know, not far from here, it's Starverton. Um RAF, or what was RAF Staverton now, Staverton Airport. Um I'm trying to sort of figure out where I suppose I need to rewatch it, it's a good excuse to watch it again. Absolutely. Get me doing my then and now's as well. Yeah, absolutely 100%. I love this, by the way. Yes. But you're right though, it's it's they use the real stuff. I mean, even Memphis Bell, they used five or six B set real B-17s. I mean, one crashed and they lost one. But I think that's what makes it so much I hate to say uh better in terms of I don't know, not better, but but what's the word, you know. Yeah, I know it gives it that realism, I think. And yeah, 100%. And I think I think it about the um the Bond films and and funny enough, in the new book for for Normandy, I'm doing some research on Ken Adam, who is the production designer on the early Bond films. So he built like the hollowed-out volcano and stuff and designed all that. Um but he was a Typhoon pilot on D-Day um and served in and in Kent. Um and he fascinates the guy, but again, reading about him, he built those sets, you know, so there wasn't there wasn't green screen, there wasn't CGI, you know, that that hollowed-out dead volcano in You Only Live Twice is is real. And again, those spitfires in in a back in Britain are real, and you know, they drove up a Hells Highway in in filming a bridge too far and stuff, you know, and then that's what I love. And like the longest day was predominantly shot, or a lot of it was shot in in Normandy, you know, and and it just gives it that realism, you just feel like you're there, which I love. Yeah, I mean and I think that's it. I I need to watch Longest Day now because I need to, you know, off to Normandy, and I sort of go, Oh, yeah, maybe it's something that was stuff to be done as well. Absolutely, you know, and uh I think there's that house, isn't it? You know, and um the woman in the window, so I need you know, I haven't been there yet. So I yeah, they can go with it. Yeah, you you mentioned you're a Bond fan as well. Yes. Do you know he's based on somebody who served in World War II, James Bond. Not Ian Fleming, it's I'll have to tell you this now. I should have searched this before asking that question. Um there's a museum uh in the far end, I want to say Kent. You'll have to excuse the name. I went there in January. And um like I think he he was part of the SAS in in Normandy. Not he wasn't part of um the African, you know, North Africa campaign. He was recruited afterwards. Uh so if I can. This is really bad prep on my part, so I must apologize. And where is it? I went early and it was just fascinating. So all these little trinkets, and if I can remember the museum, I'll have to let you know. Yeah, but he's got something down the right from me, so it's somebody goes, Oh, you know, he James Bond was based on because you know, uh Captain Ian, oh sorry, Captain Peter Mason. I want to say Captain Peter Mason. Robert and um so if you go to this museum uh in I will tell you what this is, Malden. Yeah, um i i it it's got all these the the this so much kit, let's just say that, of Peter Mason and his wife, um of what the kind of stuff they had from Savalock weaponry, you know, uh pistols, uh machine guns, um long barrel pistol that just looks like it should be, you know, in a circus, you know, a clown would use, you know, one of those um just utterly phenomenal. I just couldn't believe it. I was just like, oh my god, like this is and it trans, you know, he was in the SAS before he became, I think it what was, again, if I get this wrong, the OSS. Yeah. Uh before that became, was it MI5, MI6? So the SOE. Was it in the SOE he was in? No, I think it was I think SOE was more for World War II, wasn't it? Okay, yeah. I think. But it was I'll have to sort of check. But what was fascinating in this museum in Maldon, there was a sword there. So some medieval in the on the bottom floor, all medieval stuff, and there was a sword there from a village near my hometown that's found in a village near my hometown, which is well, it's between my town, um sorry, this where this sword is found, yeah, it's um place called Cowbridge, and that's near a marshland camp, which is something I'm exploring at the moment, because I just came across something in a book, and I think that's a great thing about reading. Um I talked about marshland camps in South Wales, and it's near there, and that's where the eight second airborne um you know went from the seaborne element for D-Day, uh Oxwich to Oma Omaha. That yeah, yeah. Really interesting, because it's all about you know World War II in South Wales, but yeah, and yeah, so this sword was found as well. I just thought, my god, like I'm in the far end of England here, and there's a sword here from near home. And it's the same village, and it's the same village, and oh I think it's a nice little segue into the market garden. Um, the same village where Anthony Hopkins went to grammar school as well, who is in Bridge Too Far. Bridge too far, one of the greatest war films ever made. And I'm not gonna be persuaded otherwise. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I need to re-watch it to sort of refresh that, you know. But you one of the comments you made in in your book as well was the cast. And I love how you compare it to the Avengers, because obviously they've got the modern headline, as you could say. I think I hate to say, I hope they don't listen to this. Um, is I don't think some of them are good actors. Yeah, in the Avengers. You know, Down Robbie Downey Jr., phenomenal. I watched him in Charlie as a chaplain uh a couple of weeks ago. He is phenomenal. Um, but the rest are to be the rest are to be desired, let's just say that. Yeah, I I I'd agree. And but they are they are just these massive names now, aren't they? Whereas I think with with the Bridge too far in that cast, is every one of them is just a huge no-no, most of them want Oscars, most of them British fans are knighted, you know, it's just yeah, phenomenal cast. And and and I think that's it, I think that's what Segway, you know, it's sort of not saying another second, but that's the difference between that cast who are, yeah, you're right, yeah, they are the these huge actors of this modern time, but are they good actors? Yeah. But you go back to a bridge too far, and I think I just you know, looking at the list you had so yeah, Hopkins, Anthony Hopkins, uh, James Kahn, Sean Connery, Michael Kane, Gene Hackman, Lawrence Olivier, Dirt Bogart, Robert Redford, uh, Edward Fox is I I think the best of that in that film, the best of all of them is scenes are just magical as horrors. But yeah, I mean, I think I've I'll probably miss a few off, but oh you probably because it's just a stellar cast. It's a stellar cast. Uh, you know, you know, and and you know, I say a friend of mine, he's an old friend, um, he's in it, but he also trained them as well. A guy called Jack Mackenzie, he was a Royal Marine. Yeah. Um, and he he trained the guys. He's also in Star Wars, by the way, Empire Strikes Back. Oh right. Um, so he's in the scene where they're in the um the Hoff Rebel base and he goes up to Rand Solo. We need to close the blast doors. Um right, that's so cool. He he's in a bridge too far as well. And but you're right, it's you know, Dirk Bogard, Gene Gene Hackman, my god, alive. I mean, you you know, you did you get Hallible Hector, James Bond, Ross, you know, Ross's dad and friends, but you know, um, Gene Hackman, Lex Luthor as well. Um, but he's a superb actor. I mean, he recently passed away, but my god, he's in some good ones. Oh, absolutely. But that you're right, that's a stellar cast. And I suppose, yeah, what attracted you to then a you know, you know, Bridge Too Far, then what really you know sucked you into that movie? Yeah, I think I think the other, you know, I I love all those other classes I mentioned previously, but I think it's probably Sean Connery being in it. So you know, gone from those early Bond films and then and then into watching this film, and then I was just hooked with it from moment one. I think it helps that it's shot in colour. Um, so so sort of from a young age, I think I I would have watched it about age nine or ten, reckon I would have been so quite pretty young. So you know, the fact that it's shot in colour gives it an advantage over like the damn busters or or uh long estate. Um, but yeah, I think it's the cast, the way it's written, the music, uh, the action, uh say Ed Edward Box, you know, when he stands up and does his briefing speech, which I think I've pretty much got off book now script by it in my head, um, it just blows me away. Um, and yeah, and I the thing I really like about it as I've got older, and I've watched it so many times for the trip last year and writing the book, um, is the fact Marky Gardner is a failure. So the film ultimate the film ultimately is a failure in terms of you know, the good guys don't win. So to see Connery, who's never lost in a film, suddenly lose, or Michael Caine lose, or Robert Redford lose. You know, these are guys that that are the heroes, they win and they get the girl at the end and and roll credits. So in a film where they don't, and you know, Anthony Hopkins gets taken prisoner as as um as Frost and all these things, you know it it I find that really interesting and a really interesting way of making a film. And and I think it was a brave film. I think it's a really brave film to make because because it's not you know it's an anti-war film, and because the good guys don't win, and actually um for for Levine, the producer, to take that gamble. And I I think it was a gamble, um, and and it I think it paid off, and I think it's hands the test of time, really. Yeah, and I think it for me, I think it's still well loved as well by a lot of people. People always say Bridge Too Far, Bridge Too Far. You're gonna watch a film, Bridge Too Far. Um, and you're right, I think the fact that it doesn't show the good guys winning, you know, what's our back end of Vietnam? You know, Vietnam has just finished. That wasn't what was it, 77? No, yeah, it's shot in 76, released in 77. So yeah, it's the 50th year of it's filming this year and released next year. So yeah. You know, and I think you know, when something like that, like that political uh I suppose incident, however you want to call it. that that sort of negative um coverage with Vietnam you could say uh you know and then to have a film where it just shows them losing I suppose again the allies or the you know the good people yeah you know I guess that sounded sounded wrong then but you know but no absolutely but you know yeah to show them losing I mean that's yeah you're right that's a hell of a gamble yeah I mean how how did it perform in the in the theatres do you know? If if I remember rightly theatres it didn't I I don't think it did it hugely well it came out the same year as Star Wars Star Wars yeah it was a new hope wasn't it the same year as New Hope um so yeah I think it was thrown away from from that point of view if I remember right I think Edward Fox won a BAFTA for it and I think the score won a BAFTA and possibly an Oscar I think but other than that that was it critically didn't do particularly well with the critics either if I remember rightly but it was there was a deal done in the background for yeah Dicky Astonborough Richard Astor um Traffic Park obviously and Gandhi but he he did he did a deal to direct this as long as he got to direct that Gandhi which was his you know passion projects and then you know Gandhi becomes this absolute incredible film um and Dickie Aspra goes on to do you know become Santa and the the owner of Jurassic Park so you know it's uh but no you're right I mean yeah it it's it's got a great cast and I mean I'm just looking at it now um it's got Spock's dad in here from the you know the Star Trek reboot as well um Ben Cross didn't realise he was in it um yeah I mean because that's a great film in itself um it's who else you know that there's there's quite a lot in you I mean yeah I'm just looking through it it's a great cast yeah so so speaking of Star Wars Garrick um so I hope Garrick Hagen is in it as well who plays uh Lieutenant Rafti so in Star Wars his team's got cut but he's quite well renowned as being Briggs or Biggs in Star Wars Luke Skywalker's best friend so yeah I just I'm just looking through it's not I just must have no the guy he was in cheers he died last year I think he was in cheers man in cheers and he's the voice of ham and toy sorry um yeah he's I he's in uh he's in the river while crossing scene with Robert Redford he's he's in the oh john ratzenberger he's still alive isn't he is he's I'm just going on that sorry I think it was uh George Wentz who died wasn't it's it yeah I hope uh Ham hasn't died I like him he's quite a unique voice as well you know he's he's always on those Pixar movies as well yes um but yeah it's a great cast and I mean it's got 7.4 average on um IMDB the poster itself I feel like that's an iconic poster i you know the paratroopers in the sky the list of all you know the stars um I mean is Anthony Hopkins on Anthony Hopkins on there he was a rising star at the time so he wasn't necessarily in the same I would say at that time in the same field as those guys at that time yeah now he is oh he's you know um but you're right that's a that's a bloody great movie poster as well um and you're right it it's just yeah it it's showing the loss and you don't really see that do you in movies that's all yeah that's no and and even if you know you say in modern films you know saving private Ryan obviously has you know a a a tragic ending and and what have you with it but ultimately we've won the beach and you know mission accomplish exactly that so you know most of these these films do do have that happy ending and and so to have one that doesn't and I think that's why it's just stuck with me as a film I think it's a a really interesting watch but as I say there are just scenes I I talk about it on I when I went to I went to the Son Bridge um which blows up in the scene with Edward Gordon and that was actually having read it a few years later I believe to Dick Winters and um Lewis Nixon they were hit by rubble from that bridge blowing up which he's not shown in Banner Brothers which um but you know when when he stands up and and Elliot Gordon they sort of you know start pulling down bricks and start falling down around him and he just shit and you know at nine years old that's hilarious you know and and it's still it still makes me chuckle now as as a 38 year old child you know it still makes me chuckle but um so there's no use of saying I I I could go on about it for for hours really and it's that's why I wanted to do the Mark and Garden trip because I wanted to go and walk those because I knew it was films you know more or less you know sort of intervenor for the arms but the rest of it was on location I thought oh how great would it be to go and walk these same streets that the heroes did in 44 and then and then the movie Heroes did in in 76 how how you know first of all yeah before we move on to the next question how how many times a year do you watch it then I watch it once a year briefly far once a year last year I watched it four or five times I think in prep for the trip and then once on the trip as well because you've got two and you know there was there was I I watched it actually uh in Nijmegen right on the right on the riverbank and this amazing campsite right on the riverbank door open there's the river with you know they do the wild crossing on um and I watched a British farm and it's just like it's getting with with a with a beer in the hand you know so what yeah what can be better so no that's that's pretty amazing so you know you're planning for the trip so obviously a trip you wanted to do with your grandfather how long you know how long before you came to the decision you that you need to execute you know to do this trip yeah and then you know doing it in I suppose how yeah how did you go around planning it you know what what was your I suppose your roadmap yeah I mean for for me um I'd say we had the the outline of a plan for for ages and then along comes Al Murray and James Holland and and they do some podcast apparently or something at Star Hurt and and some YouTube channel and and and their stuff was really cool and they talk about walking the ground and and they do a great documentary on YouTube about that and stuff and and mention it on that podcast they do. But um which isn't as good as this one obviously um so um so I I watched their stuff and I realized I wanted to go there. I I ended up very being very lucky and get my own camper van and last year I'd had a bit stressy crappy year and I kind of wanted to do something and I think I was annoying my family and uh they just wanted me to go away and just you know go and have to do something interesting and I thought well let's go do exactly World War II with the camper van and so I thought yeah sold let's go to Holland. So the planning really went from there and I I bought Major and Mrs Holt's travel book uh which comes with a map it's really good it comes with a map with Mark on all the sites they've done one for Normandy and for World War I and so that's the roadmap really and I sort of start to think of right well what I'll watch a bridge too far and where do I want to go and I realized let's do it logically let's follow the route 30 core start in Leopoldsburg in Belgium because that's where they do the briefing scene which is my favourite scene and then let's follow that route up through Idm and Nymegan up to Arnhem piece of it and then you kind of think well I might as well go up to Deventer while I'm there because that's where they shot the film and it was an excuse to buy every single book and every single DVD and everything you know and show my age that was saying DVD really but um and so uh and re-watch the films and that's how the plan came about and it just developed from there. And then when I was planning it the one thing I couldn't find was a narrative travel book. I just found these travel books that just said you have to go here you have to go here's a bit of a story about it you have to go here but nothing about actually what it's like to drive up through Belgium and drive a camper van and where's good to stay and where's good to eat what's not traveling on your own. And I've never done a battlefield tour like a traditional battlefield tour um and I I I toyed with the idea of doing one of those but then I thought you know what actually I'm a bit of a selfish traveller quite like travelling on my own. And so I thought let's just do it. So that's where it came from really so and then I just planned it from there and then out of that came the book then the camper history idea then the Instagram page and it just filed really um and now it's what I think about and too and I'm wearing one of my camper history hats you get to you know you like you you get to design merch because I'm wearing one I'm wearing your T I saw I noticed that didn't you wear me T but you know you get to you get to like you know you get to buy a mug with your logo on it you know how sad as that but you know as a 38 year old man I'm going this is my midlife crisis stage I'm going for it's I agree mate I'm terrible for it you know um I I'm the same I'm absolutely the same um anything with a logo you know I think it's something we're proud of isn't it I mean yeah I mean that could be a picture in your office your you know your book cover you know because it's something you know that you've it's something you've done and I think it's such a great photo as well. But it it's I think priorities change as we get older as well and you know we have these interests um you know they're very different from what we were 10 years ago yeah and and you know I think just life changes you know I think it's just priorities change and you just want to sort of relax and just something just to sort of take your mind off things. And I think you plan in it I think it's amazing and you're right there's a book I got it last year it was like this apparently this definitive guide for easy company Banda Brothers Easy Company. Okay yeah um I think the Burgs or something I'll see if I can find the name because I I took I I got it from Amazon. I think it was a print on demand thing. And I was cute it was a curious purchase and I remember reading it and it just wasn't like I can't remember if I wrote a review for the book as well because it was just that bad um on their Amazon page because I was you know because I was just so disappointed with it and it just you're right it it just felt like this is just for you know easy company banned a brother you know that uh a very brief overview it looked like AI had written it it just didn't feel like a human had written it. Yours it does and they'd missed so much as well considering it was like this definitive Easy Company Banda Brothers book as well. I felt like they missed some you know and I think your book is very honest and I think that's what makes it more human where this book wasn't and it just it just didn't feel that way. And I returned it and obviously didn't they didn't give me an dress they just gave me a refund. So it went in the bin. And uh yeah you know it's just I think they because they probably just knew the quality was terrible um yeah but I supp where did your book idea come from then so how what was this how did you come to you know of doing this what was your decision making behind that? Yeah I I said I I've always wanted to be a writer I love to write absolutely love to write it relaxes me it it so I've written a number of sort of fiction books which I've published and and what have you and then um as I said I couldn't find anything that just told the story of traveling it was just all these books you're saying you have to go here and then dick and then and I just wanted something a bit I'd say that I wanted to hear someone's story and so I thought well is my story going to be interesting enough right what what do I need to also do and then I thought well you've got to write about the history but then you start getting a bit um nervous about because you know I'm taking on then James Holland I'm taking on Max Hastings Connelly S. Ryan you know uh Anthony Beaver and you're thinking okay well I can't write like these guys and they've written all about it it's done and then I thought well no one's really written apart from one guy called Simon Lewis no one's written film Richard Bart and I thought right let's let's mate let's let's combine all three passions here and just like you say I I tried to be really honest about the good things I enjoyed the bad things um the funny things you know I had a minor toilet disaster um in well at one campsite uh which I spoke about in the book um not for a dinner table conversation but um you know so it's uh you know I wanted to be honest you know and you know I talk about you know packing for it for a trip and and I think as guys you know we only end up for some reason I take one pair of trousers but 38 pairs of pants and 17 t-shirts for a week trip for some reason you know but um but it's just all about those those things really and you know I've I've got no worries about being honest I'm a I'm a complete idiot and but I like to uh have fun with it and put it into my book and then I just realized oh this this might be quite fun to how am I going to publicize this book and that's where the Instagram page came from that but that really is pure was pure purely about just trying to publicize the book and and sell the book. And then I realized actually I started getting some really good feedback from people and I really enjoyed doing the reels and editing them and I you talking to to Ben the other day about putting the drone up and that that's great fun because you get really weird looks from people um as you're flying about and so and putting all those together it became really really good fun and and you start interacting with the audience a little bit and and so suddenly I stopped really thinking about publicising the book and actually just telling these stories and that's been the best part about it. No that's where I came from really so no it it's it's really nice you know then and and I think it's just like you said it it's a passion. It's you know bringing all of your passion you know your together um from writing to movies to to traveling to you know using like you know your new camper van as well and then to you know yeah it's passion it's passion and I like how you don't talk about Pearl Harbor but we need to talk about Pearl Harbor as well. But one of the things you know in your book I really liked was and you mentioned it earlier about with you know when you know wanting to you know possibly you know not wanting to do a battlefield tour have a battlefield tour guide because you're right and you're absolutely right on this is you know having done quite a few myself you don't you know you are limited because you've got the next place you're always you're always on somebody else's schedule not your schedule um although you know if you've got a really good talk you know tour guide like you know for my you know Yoris in in in market garden you know Reg in in you know Badstone Battle of the bulge don't get me wrong the places they're gonna take you are going to be amazing but I kind of get the feeling that you like to take her all in as well you want to be there longer than everyone else I suppose to just and I think that is quite a nice thing and again that reference to you know Charlie you know Borman and and and Iwan McGregor I mean the third season was terrible but yeah is there a four you know is there a fourth season yeah I th they they saved it with the fourth season one or two yeah three yeah fourth yeah I I feel they bought it back in the fourth well they used petrol bikes instead did they they did petrol bikes and there were plastic bikes as well they they were classic bikes they built and I don't think Ewan did them up but uh allegedly they did a marketing with them and and then went on this trip around Europe which is really cool because obviously it's on our doorstep as well so that that trip feels accessible for normal people like us. So yeah and I think you know obviously going on to the but yeah that third season was charging up the bikes we've got to get this you know gotta get to the next location to charge our bikes and obviously felt like it was a promotion for electric bikes and it's like like no nah this is not what long way round or up and down you know up down is is not about and you're right and I think obviously coming back on to you know you get to do at your own pace. I mean how long were you spending at each location? Yeah so it's there was a couple of days I had to rush but but most of the time I I had a good amount of time to a couple of hours per you know um per museum and I was really lucky there was a there's a museum the Liberation Museum in Leopoldsburg first museum I went to and I got there at 10 it opened at 10 I was the first one through the door the nicest people I've ever met. I got a personal guide around it because I said what I was doing I was like oh yeah because they asked so I was writing a book and everything. So right I'll get you the guide so the guide came out and he guided me around the whole place with this personal guide which was amazing. And in my head I sort of thought well I've got one hour here bash this out in an hour I was like two and a half hours um in this one museum and because they were so lovely but the museum's fantastic um so yeah no I I just got to take my time and I didn't you know just cruise up the road so I didn't really drive very fast but then my favourite days were the days I actually got out the camper van so in up in Utervik I walked the perimeter so I can't remember how many miles it was I was at dead by the end of it. But I walked the entire the perimeter so I spent a whole day on foot and just walked the bridge walked the lion route, the tiger route um yeah walk the perimeter the walk to the semi to the Easterbee cemetery and and that was fantastic. But the other great thing is is you kind of can drive along and you think oh that looks interesting. And you take a detour and and so I I found some different stories that probably don't normally get told on these you know on on a basketball tour because there isn't time. So you know every every town every village every road has got a story and they're all named and you've got these British names or American names and you think oh I wonder why that street's named that um and so yeah you can go and discover these stories and that's the best thing about the trip and I think I wanted to try and explain through the book that it's really accessible and really it's not if I can do it anyone can just grab a car with a tent, camper van whatever you've got and go and do it. And it's not to take way for battlefield tours at all because I know how amazing these guys how hard they work and how knowledgeable they are but there's if I find it exciting to go and discover it for myself really if that's no I think that's no absolutely total sense and you've got that freedom as well you know you've got the research and hell if you don't know the story it's like you will go and find the story you know you'll use that investigative mindset and you will go and find it yourself and and and again open it just opens up so many more rabbit holes so many more options of you know looking at you know and coming across those like I said those not well publicized stories as well. I mean I don't know too much about market garden if I'm honest it's probably one of my weakest areas is market garden um and I wish I'd spent more time there when we went uh a few years ago and when we did that tour there I wish you know because we had such a wonderful guy but you're right you know we saw the the main points you could say yeah um and and we were just hitting you know those ones where yeah would it be nice to have really just go back and delve into it and definitely something you know and even your book and you know is inspiring that is to go you know back to these places and and and and and check them out as well. And and how how long did it take for the book to sort of like I suppose how did you break it down as well like what was your thought process on breaking down the chapters to sort of yeah get giving it given it a structure. I thought so I wrote the first part before I went so the whole planning and everything and I kind of just wrote it as a diary. I thought if I just write this as a almost like a travel diary rather than a travel book. And so that's how I broke it down really and um I was lucky enough to hit certain days that matched up with the history which worked really well and I've I've managed to do Normandy instead if I'm going to Normandy in September I've managed to do the same so I land in Normandy on a Tuesday morning which would have been which the day was on a Tuesday morning so it did work quite nicely. But that's how I broke it down really and as I say following that 34 route it was quite easy so starting with them in Neopolesburg was well starting way back actually in at the tank museum really but then endorsed it then hitting their points at Neopolesburg and then you might as well just follow that route so then Eindhoven is the 101st airborne and though this is about bridge too far you can't go anywhere in Europe without touching on Banner Brothers an easy comfort um so you know you hit those places the Sunbridge and their landing zone and then yeah just just naturally made my way up to up to Arnham and um and that's how I break the chapters down really and and then each place has a unique that's a unique story and then each place has a unique link back to a bridge too far. So you know Nine Megan really is is that scene with the wild crossing and and Redford in the in the uh in the boat in the you know Hail Mary full of grace what have you and so I was I was managed to follow that up really and and rip off some of those scenes in my Instagram page which I think is brilliantly active but I'm not sure anyone agrees with um but um and yeah made myself way up really and then I say finishing up in and Deventer was a last minute thought really before I left I had sort of an extra day and thought so I did rush in a little bit I missed a couple of things. So I didn't go into an I Eindhoven for example I I bypassed Eindhoven so I'll need to go back there but I wanted to go and just walk around Daventa and see the proper film sites. So so that's how I'll break the chapters down really and then um yeah that's that was kind of it I think yeah you're right I think you've just said some like really great points as well with with Eindhoven like you're you're making a sacrifice which is a sac you know you can go back there again. I mean for me I think it's quite affordable to fly to Eindhoven from from the UK anyway but to go somewhere where they film you know for you it's going back to that movie A Bridge Too Far um and and where they you know is that where they filmed the bulk of the movie and was Deventer was that what they filmed yeah so so so the thing about Deventer is it's got a bridge that is the perfect match for for the John Frost bridge or the Arnham Bridge which which was bombed in October 44. And Arnhem was flattened so they needed somewhere that didn't look modern And Deventer had been relatively untouched by the wall, so it just perfectly represents it. And a lot of the scenes around the bridge, like the houses that um Pancy Hopkins is in, they were built on a car park, it's a car park now. And it's a car park then, and they built these houses up, which is really cool. But you know, the windmill, which is in in the scene where they um with a guy tries to um surrender, that windmill's still there. Um the tower where the four generals stood at the end, um saying, Oh, you know, it was the bridge, it was a single road, all that that's there, and you can go up that tower. You know, so it's really cool. So I thought, do you know what? I've got to go and you've got to go and walk the streets to Hopkins and the Connery walks. You have to. You just have to say, well, you know, um, so yeah, it was it was a privilege. It was definitely a privilege. I think it was worth it, wasn't it, to do that detour. Like Einthoven, you can go back, and I think just yeah. I don't know, you know, I don't know how far away Deventer is from, you know, but it yeah, I think you have to, don't you? I think just you have to make that, you know, you have to sacrifice something to do something, you know, for which means a lot to you. And and I think you did the right for me. I mean I think you made the right decision as well. And and yeah, you could sort of see it as well, you know, in how you talk about it. And and yeah, you can definitely see the passion that you have about it, and and and it shows it in your book as well, you know. And I think even what you said is you know, you're treating it like a diary. You've taken, you know, do you take a diary with you as well? Yeah, well, I have my laptop with me and a and a notepad, and so every night it was it sounded really boring actually, but I had I kind of like a structure, so I sort of thought, well, I'll do dinner, then I'll do a bit of editing of some reels and stuff for social media, and then I'll I'll write for an hour. So I've put an episode of Banner Brothers on, or I've put a um uh you know, bridge to fire on, and I'll just write and just try and stay on top of the writing as much as I could. I'd just get as many thoughts as I could down. I had notepads coming out of my ear, I had notes for my phone, any way I could write stuff down. I started voice recording myself as I was driving along and listening back to that is just horrific. Um, but um but it it just gave me a sense of reference. And then as soon as I got back, I just opened my laptop and just went for it really. And and um I can always set myself a deadline, I always set deadlines. I'm a bit of a box ticker like that. And and so I had this deadline in mind getting the book out as not as quick as possible that I wanted to rush it, but I wanted to kind of ride the wave of you know, I got some really nice feedback, as I say, on social media, so you kind of want to wave ride that wave a little bit and stuff. And and now I've got the structure of the book. I've started writing what I'm gonna call uh the longest travel book. Um, so after the longest day is is my little trip there. Um so I've started writing the basic outline of that book. So I've got a structure now that I want to keep to. Um and uh it's helping me plan that trip in Normandy in September. So um, and then hopefully the easy travel book next May be my plan. Um, but no clues as to what that might be. No, none, no and oh with Normandy then I was gonna you just covered off for I was gonna say, you know, what have you got next? Yeah, um obviously Normandy, and I suppose what what what are you focusing on with Normandy then? What's gonna be your yeah, yeah, I suppose a rough itinerary fit for that trip if you want to talk about it? Yeah, no, absolutely. So so Normandy was a no-brainer. When I was coming back, we wanted to realize this was fun and I want to keep doing this and learning these stories. Um, I went to Normandy in 2002 with my grandparents, who I mentioned earlier, um, in the podcast. And basically, where I'd gone from Banner Brothers to Second Prime to Medal of Honor Frontline on the PS2, my focus was all on it. Oh, America, America won the war, paratroopers and everything. Yeah, and I think I think it upset my granddad a lot. So he was like, no, right, we're going over to Normandy and I'm gonna show you the real Normandy, you know, and then the real war. And we did go to Tarentan and Breakout Manor and St. Meredith's, and we did all the beaches, but the focus we we stayed in a chateau just like Gold Beach, which had been occupied by the Germans pre-DJ and the British post-DA, which was really cool to start in a place like that. We did Hegas Bridge, we post on the bridges, you know, Morby harbours, everything. And then as I sort of drop in, we did some American stuff, but it's like, no, we've got to go and focus on the bridge. And it was just that subtle reminder. No, actually, it wasn't very subtle at all, actually, really, but it was a reminder to me from him that there were other people than the Americans. Um, so it it I'm basically reincreating that trip from 2002. So um I found in my loss three packets of photos developed from super snaps, if I remember rightly, that's how old I am. And um, and I've unfortunately I've written on the back of them because that's apparently what you did when we were old, uh you know, when we were younger or other so I'm gonna remap that. So I'm heading to um Portsmouth um on the Monday. So I'm gonna go and do the D-Day story where I went uh earlier on in the year and up to Southwark House, where the big D Day map is. So gonna go hang out there. That's where I did my training, by the way. Oh well, of course, in a military space. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They shot uh the guide was telling me they shot um any naval stuff in a ship for James Bond. Whenever you see the interior ship, they they apparently filmed it in a building in there. There's a control, a practice control room, apparently. Um but yeah, so um it was really cool to go up there. I went up uh a couple of months ago, man. It was wicked. So we're gonna go over to Portsmouth and then get the overnight ferry. So I thought there'd be something quite poignant about being in the water on mid at midnight and travelling into Normandy, you know, in that mode of transport rather than flying or getting the Euro tunnel. And then just following the routes of Pegasus Bridge and Ranville, and then um straight over to the American side, so and and do some Bander Brothers stuff, of course, Utah, Omaha, um Gold Juno, and sword. And then through reading, I've I've tried to try and find some connections to some stories. So like I do with with the travel book too far, and I I picked on a glider pilot and followed his story from England through to um through to his death. What he's he's still missing, he's still Clarkson's missing in in Arnhem. I followed his story and researched his story. There's there's three or four people that I've found that have sparked an interest really. So um, and one of them was stationed in battle, which is literally 10 minutes from me at Battle Abbey, and he ended up dying in uh July of 44 during the Battle of Normandy. Um so I followed his story um from basically my hometown right through to Normandy and follow his route, which was quite exciting to um plan and to research. And then one other, another glider pilot who actually um died, flew out of Tarrant Rushdon, like the glider pilot I'd researched before, and his glider went off course, and he died about I think 20 miles east of the landing zones at Pegasus Bridge. Um, and again, following his story a little bit from from this country over to where he's buried. So yeah, I've got a few stories. And as I said, you you can't go to these places without touching on bands, so you know they'll be called Manny and Sam Marie Jimon and what have you. So yeah, I'm gonna try and the plan is to hit as much as humanly possible in six days, um, and write about if it works, and if it doesn't work, I'll still write about it and and you know, like my horrific toilet story, you know, things go wrong. So yeah, you know, you have to be honest in these books, and that's what I want to write. No, no, I think yeah, that's awesome. That's pretty cool. Um, and and I think that you know, following that itinerary from you know 2002 as well. Um, and yeah, I agree with your grandfather, you know, for dra you know, I think it's a good drag though. Oh, absolutely. And um, because you're right. I mean, I was in like old was I when I came, you know, two you know, I was 20. Um and yeah, Banda Brothers, yeah. So Banda Brothers was 2001. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean even I remember watching it, I don't remember. I was captivated by the same private Ryan. I was kind of you know, and and I think it was just because it was so well made, you know, they were so well made. You just can't you can't get help, you know, you can't help but get absorbed into these things and then think, you know, America won the war. And I was I don't think I really knew uh too much about World War II history, I just enjoyed World War II or World War II films. Um and yeah, you know, same primary writing Banda Brothers, Medal of Honor, remember that? Yeah, um so you can't help it. Um, and I wish I had somebody to go, hey, we were there as well. And then we I you know, and I think I just didn't know I suppose too much about that. Um and and yeah, you know, to go back there and you know, I think there's some great books out now about you know Sword Beach by Stephen Fisher is you know is is a great one, and there's some others as well. I think Mac sorry, Max I think. Max I think is just unfortunate. Yeah. So and you know, you got um the brothers in arms, you know, the Sherwood Rangers with uh the James Holland one. So there are some great books, you know, and I think that's you know, and I think Yeah, we need to do more British. I was speaking about this with Gary Jones last week. Is you know, we're all guilty for it, and and it's just changing that mindset because we did a bloody good, you know, we did a lot before the Americans, you know, you know, not to offend anyone, but we were in we were at war way before them. Yeah. Um you know, and and we did a lot more, you know, you got the commando raid. Oh, Ben Main told me about it, he signposted me to a documentary again. I I can't remember it now. And it was just, you know, where Jeremy Clarkson is is host in this documentary, because he was a very good um documentary presenter uh back in the day, pre pre you know, pre-top gear. Well, his father, his ex-father-in-law's um VC winner, Major Kang, from Mark Igon. Yes, I am so glad. I I was thinking him, is it his grandfather? Yes. Yeah. Let me just find this now. Because it's it's an um, you know, the the the um the uh the operation was incredible. And it again, it's British, British commandos. Um Ben's gonna kill me if I forget this. Um, the good so it's called The Greatest Raid of All Time. And the raid, that's what the you know, the name of the documentary is, and it is called The Greatest Raid of All Time. Um trying to find the name of the the operation. Um but it's called Yeah, The Greatest Raid of All Time by Jeremy Clarkson on on YouTube. Uh, you know, it tells you you know the audacious commando raid of the German-occupied dry dock at Saint Nazir in France in March 1942. Um, I mean, it's phenomenal. I mean, my God, alive. I think there's quite a few VC recipients out of that. Um, I mean, uh you know, a couple of hundred dead, wounded, missing, but they ram a ship into the dock. Wow. And they had it set to explosives, and obviously you've got Germans crawling all over it, and they're thinking, oh my god, you know, the explosives haven't gone off. So the Germans are, you know, it's there, and they're all like you know, going on there and rummaging around and having photos next to it. You know, look at this, it's a ship. Wow. Yeah, it's class, it's so cool. So good. Yeah. Um and obviously Jeremy Clarkson is very good in you know, our presenting style hasn't changed either. Um, uh it's phenomenal. Yeah, highly recommend it. Right, I'll check that out. And yeah, I mean in researching D-Day, um, obviously I've just reread the other day Pegasus Bridge by Stephen E. Ambrose, um, and he does a really good job actually of telling that story. And you know, that Coup de Man raids on on those bridges is just a remarkable story in itself, and how the glider pilots went in there. Lord Love It and Um his uh his piper Bill Millennium, he Bill Millen landed on D-Day with a set of bagpipes, you know. That that is the most British thing of all time. You know, that would never happen in an American unit in a million years, you know. And it's it's just stories like that that come out of D-Day, and the majority are of these crazy British people. And and I think it's the same with British V, you know, major um tape and waters, the guy with the umbrella and the bowler hat, you know. Again, it's it's you just wouldn't get it in an American store. These these guys are just immense. It's like British tradition, you know, British tradition, British battle tradition absolutely is, you know. Um you know, they have the old uh you know, bugler as well. Yeah, yeah. You know, somebody gets shot, somebody picks up and they carry on doing it, you know. It's somebody pick up the bugle, pick up the you know, the battle flags, everything, you know, it's just a very British thing to do. But mate, I've kept you for long. We've actually kept it for about an hour and 20 minutes, but we've been that's flown, that's flow. We've been chatting for about an hour, you know, officially, but unofficially, it's been about an hour and twenty. Uh and it was just pushing on. But mate, I just want to say I can't wait. We'll do another one when you do Normandy. Thank you. No. I'll I'll put this out, you know, I'll I'll post a link to it as well for the followers, um, you know, you know, to check her out and buy. But no, me. Um, Mike, I just want to say thank you so much for having you on. I'm glad I was able to get you on as well. No, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for letting me talk about the book and and yeah, and say love the podcast. Love for t shirts, good fit. Get on the website and get get a get a t shirt from Layton 100% fan. But uh, but uh but no, it's it's been a real honor and a real pleasure. So thank you very much. Uh absolute pleasure, uh Mike. All you know, pleasure is all mine. And uh thank you all for listening.